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The Doggus ex Machina ending is the absolute worst piece of writing I have ever witnessed. Setting up all of those false trails just to ret-con the entire thing by pulling a rubber chicken out of a different hat in another room that we didn't have access too, and reversing death by dragging Sutekh through the void was insulting.

If it were up to me the next showrunners would be the guys that wrote Inside Number 9

The only problem I had with it (as someone who hasn't watched the original run of Doctor Who (YET)), is that they ended the part 1 of the finale with the reveal of Sutekh. This meant nothing to me, except for perhaps the Doctor's reaction telling me it was big and they had history. I think the better ending for part 1 would've been to have everyone being killed off by the sand, which would've revealed to me EXACTLY how dangerous Sutekh is, hyping up part 2. Despite all that, it was fine and I enjoyed the finale. Edit for spelling mistakes.

"just asking"

Honestly, I didn’t even like Rogue that much and I’m not entirely sure if that’s a hot take But I do agree with you; it’s a weird finale and this season definitely confirmed a few concerns about Russel’s new era I had

Didnt mind Ben and Polly , the animated Daleks look totally real .

They should try to be more relevant, maybe have an episode where Just Stop Oil protestors chain themselves to the Tardis and the Dr has to do an elaborate song and dance routine to make them leave?

I think that as die-hard fans we are caring far too much about how new audiences are going to perceive such things, when in reality they don't care anywhere near as much as we think they do. My boyfriend is one of these new fans (never seen a Tom Baker story in his life) and a couple of sentences explaining Sutekh sufficed. Didn't impact our enjoyment of the finale one bit!

mr tardis spent too much time watching right wing grift shit on youtube and now his content is just turning into that lazy shit, presentation wise, even changed his thumbnail cause folks were getting this mixed up with nerdrotic content, embarrasing

I really don't think Dr Who has ever needed a jumping on point. It's about an ancient resourceful alien who travels with a companion or more in a space time machine that' looks like a '60s police call box and is bigger on the inside. Even people who've never seen the thing know that much. Oh, and he has a convenient gizmo or two. Every time anyone comes back the Doctor says he/she has met them before and sketches out what they're about. You could then go back and find out more if you wanted to. You're a bit cozier with it all if you know in advance but it's not necessary. There's so much that's bizarre about this finale but Davies seems to want all his cakes had and eaten. He wants the "this one is really bad" kick so had to use the side hustle bookended thing to refocus Pyramids. But he decided to strip Sutekh of all Egyptian context to the point where he could just have been "this one is the god of gods" and might as well have been something new. He wants to direct the viewers to classic era stuff but he also wants it to be an unencumbered fresh start. The man's all over the place. And this was very puerile. The original had references to Egyptian history and myth, HG Wells, an alternate future, unstable gelignite, the classic liar logic puzzle and the propagation speed of radio waves. The wordplay puzzle "Sue Tech" isn't fit for a child's teatime puzzle. The original chillingly effective lines were "I bring Sutekh's gift of death" and "everywhere I tread I leave nothing but dust". So now we get the childishly literal "dust of death". Which is yet another annoyingly typical modern era rapid wipe of everything, everywhere and everywhen. I think the older stories where the threat was often just as severe but had to be thwarted at the last minute rather than wibbled away after it happens were far more effective. What do we get from this modern approach anyway but "told you it would be awful"? You can do the "it's not over even when it's over" thing just as well before the deadline when all of reality gets turned into blancmange.

I highly disagree with this. Don't get me wrong, Empire of Death has a lot of problems. But, bringing back a villain from a classic episode that general audiences won't have seen is not one of them. You absolutely do not need to watch Pyramids of Mars to understand what's going on. In fact, I don't even think they needed all those moments where they're watching the episode on the screen. It's not relevant. It's well established here that Sutekh is a villain the Doctor has faced before and he defeated him by banishing him into the time vortex. That's all you need. This is barely the same Sutekh anyway. If this finale deters new fans from getting into the show proper, it'll be because of the poor payoff to the mystery or the plot holes or the lack of stakes. Not because the appearance of a classic villain alienated them.

You must have seen a different finale than I did 😂😂

Yes, a disappointing finale, especially after all the hype. Another thing, I am positively ancient, having seen the very first episode, 'An Unearthly Child', when I was only 5 years old. So I would have seen that 50 year old story, but I'll be honest and say that trying to REMEMBER something from 50 years ago is almost impossible! Sutekh was NOT remembered by me, as for me it was basically a very forgettable story compared to some of the real classics. So even for those of us brought up on the classic series, this finale was disappointingly poor.

RTD loves bringing back an old villain and completely changing everything about them. It’s one of his major things. I actually didn’t think this two parter was the low point of the series. There were truly some terrible episodes this season. I’m assuming they brought up Susan, because the next goal of the show will be the Doctor reuniting with Susan.

Did people forget the scene in Devil's Chord where they have a whole conversation about Susan?

9th doctor already a member of the trans comunity that that was simply a slab of skin. Whats an asexual normie to that?

I really wanted to get my seven year old into the series but this season was just so all over the place. The wild thing with the finale is that how it played out nobody would be happy. I honestly just want good stories and with a... And watching this as i listen... You nailed it. If this is season one then why call back to such an old episode.

Being honest I will stick to pyramids anyway far far superior story.

Both me and my mom enjoyed this story when we saw it. My mom even said the finale two parter was her favorite of the season. For me the whole story rang true emotionally, though I can see more of the flaws on a logical level in retrospect. I will say though I do think this era has been failing at being a fresh jumping on point, given all of the fanservice between this and the 60th specials. Say what you will about series 11 but I think it achieved the fresh reboot vibes far better.

You really piss me off with your obvious inaccuracies regarding Classic Who, that you yourself claim to be a fan of. In the Pyramids of Mars, Sutekh wasn't a God. He was from an alien species that the Egyptians worshipped. Get your effing Canon and Who stories right....dimwit. Watch Pyramids of Mars again. Just correctional advice.

Empire of death is the new series equivalent of Attack of the Cybermen

Thanks. I like the previous WHO'S

Had to give up watching this. You just say the same things over and over again.

WOW Doctor Who is so 'head-fuuuucked' these days a gay time traveling Lord, who just happens to be wonderfully black is quite a dynamic transformation, 'Doctor Who' would think this would relate to plummeting viewings figures, ha ha the joke is on the Doctor Who hardened fans, and I'm not talking about erectile penises here, this lot is 'fart tripe' for the want of a more popular expression 'A heap of old crappppmm' comes to more normal cognitive mind I don't bother with the witch trial of political correctness effecting my actions and deeds. Doctor Who as it is in this format is extremely perverted and sexualized, 'hey you lot the writers, are you all seriously radio rental' <mental gasp> This looks like the end for Doctor Phoo sadly. I am a classic fan mostly of the earlier Doctor Who series, they were more cerebral and less corrupted in those days, a proper children's and adult program alike, so we now live in the world of sick classless tacky writing and lazy construction of more decent storylines. BBC hang your big-headed ideas on a spiked pole of bad taste ha ha it's so not funny. 1 Reply

Is it bad that I got a huge rush of endorphins when Sutekh was crashed by the vortesx? or that first cliff hangar? I dunno. Guess it worked on me because I saw Pyramids on the Sarah Jane Adventures boxset as an extra (somehow it was on there. It might have just been part 4 or an omnibus version. Someone who knows can correct me). I'm OBSESSED with continuity so...I think we can be glad I'll never be in charge of the show.

Doctor Who as a show really does believe its best years are behind it, if that wasn't already obvious from the "Whoniverse" iconography and the fact it is the same old creative team, this is what I've been saying all along. And so long as it continues to cling onto the past, it will not have a future.

I remember first time I watched Dalek. I knew roughly what a dalek was, hadn't seen any classic who, but had the impression they were a bit of a joke and couldn't possibly be scary. That was the popular perception in the UK among normies at the time as I remember it. So the episode is all about explaining why they're scary. It's effective as all hell, and it's also an interesting story about trauma from war in its own right. First time I saw Utopia, I didn't know who the Master was, but 'Holy shit, there's another Time Lord out there. And they're enemies!' That's all you really need, the 'last of the time lords' thing has been so integral to the show we're watching, there's plenty of drama to be wrung from that without needing to go back to the old show. They don't spend that three parter arguing about the Time Monster, they're dealing with what's happening now. I don't really know what about this would make a new fan interested to know more. They CAN go and do their homework, but As you say, its even difficult to do, so they'd need a strong reason to want to do it. And to do that, they needed to be telling an interesting story now. This is just 'Whats in the box? Oh, its nothing.' Its genuinely baffling.

Kids these days know how to use Wikipedia and finding a single 4-parter streaming for free on TUBI. It’s not that big of a deal. (It will go ten good as it’s a legitimately great one). They do it to look up Marvel movie references all the time. We have all kinds of resources for that sort of thing. The problem is the story wasn’t very good.

I disagree. You don't have to have watched "The Pyramids of Mars". I think it stands on its own merits.

Take a shot every time Mr TARDIS reminds us that he files taxes for this work

Why wasn't davina able to find Ruby's mother in the church on Ruby road? You'd think that since she's a regular human and a nurse, she would be easy to find

WAA WAA WAA... IT'S BEEN DYING FOR OVER 60 YEARS AND WHEN YOU DO KILL IT... IT JUST REGENERATES AGAIN LIKE IT DID IN 2005... GET OVER IT

New fans lol all 8 of them. 😂😂😂😂

It's interesting to note that The Devil's Chord got people talking about The Pyramids of Mars because of the similar scene of the Doctor showing a companion the screwed up future. Was that a deliberate ploy?

It was definitely weaker than it should have been. Obviously I was happy to see sutekh, and I didn’t feel like it was any more alienating than The Master, but the episode after the reveal wasn’t enough to pay it off by comparison to the series 3 finale. So many loose ends and dead ends What worries me the most as a fan is, if this is it for the show, not only will we lose the active part of our fandom, but we lose the opportunity for the show to evolve again and really try to be different, even only with a more different writing team (obviously the premise doesn’t need change) to say nothing of the anti woke, anti imagination jackals who will celebrate the end of the show. I’m terrified that Disney will just junk this as a foreign sci fi show and the whole point of making Bad Wolf independent (to keep the show alive) will be lost.

i loved it but, i do also agree with ur criticisms on it too. i showed my partner pyramids of mars after the legend of ruby sunday aired to explain to her about him and all that so. it definitely was oddly confusing for newer fans or fans who only got in from doctors 9 to 15..

I feel like we are seriously underestimating the capacity of a newcomer or casual fan to understand and enjoy an episode like this. My dad and I are big Who fans, especially him, he’s been watching since Pertwee, so we both knew about Sutekh and Susan going in and that context was definitely nice to have! However the rest of my family, who had no context whatsoever (not being as big into the show as the two of us) said they were able to clearly understand and enjoy the episode just fine and are very excited for Christmas and the next season! Obviously it’s not going to be that way for everyone, that’s to be expected, but it goes to show the finale may not have been as limiting as one might think.

The new-viewer experience issues comes from the 60th anniversary specials, since they set up a bunch of stuff for season 1. We could've done with at least a School Reunion-type episode with UNIT and Mel to properly introduce them (especially Mel, since her inclusion in The Giggle was pretty random). The actual issue is the mystery sucked, which makes people think they're missing something. Susan Triad, Triad Technology, and Ruby seeing the video of her being left at the church needed to happen way earlier in the season. Preferably, Ruby should have seen the video and started obsessing about it BEFORE she exhibited snow powers, and then when she starts believing the snow is an important. RUBY: The snow is so thick and heavy, isn't that weird? Britain ain't exactly known for its wild snowstorms. I think it's a clue. THE DOCTOR: What, you think your mother's some kind of yuki-onna? That's a snow woman, old Japanese myth, not a pretty tale. RUBY: Maybe? I don't know. I'm just thinking, why would she leave me there in the middle of a snowstorm? THE DOCTOR: She could just be a normal woman with no other choice. RUBY: No, it's important. The snow's related somehow, I can tell.

I could be wrong but I thought gods be they Egyptian or Greek are supposed to be eternal beings that never die. Gods therefore are dangerous to bring into DW. Really all Sutekh would have to wish someone dead and they would die. Gods are too powerful for Sci-fi.

Welp, at this point youve earnt my unsubscription

Mr TARDIS, Now Australia can't watch Classic on BritBox as of Last Year.

This finale was so frustrating. I skipped Jodie's second season and wish I had skipped most of Flux. I don't want to repeat that by skipping Ncuti's era, and if I keep watching, it's just because of Ncuti and Millie. I liked Boom and Rogue, but the overall performance of RTD as showrunner is unacceptable. I hope the BBC soon sends Christopher Eccleston to personally hand RTD his "you've been sacked" papers.

I'mma be real, I'm not a new viewer but also not a classic viewer. And the classic tie in was my favorite part even though I didn't know anything about Sutekh or do any research. The Ruby/mom thing after pointing at her so much was what I hated. Its not that they said she was a regular person that bothered me. It was all the little stuff up to it and then doing that. Idgaf about mystery box stuff anymore. I felt like they explained it at least well enough to enjoy it personally. I wasn't in the in group this time and I was okay with that. Nobody is all the time. Not accepting that is a quick way to ending up miserable in a society where nostalgia sells, and we absolutely live in a society where nostalgia sells.

I respect your point of view and can see where you are coming from with regard to bringing back an old villain for a series that did use any old villains (apart from Maestro being the child of The Toymaker and references to The Trickster and The Mara in the pantheon). Though it did feels to me as though like Chris, Russell was trying to bridge old and new Who and give old fans something to really get excited for and hope that they say how good it was that the new fans look it up or they see themselves as really good and watch the old episodes. I personally really liked The Empire of Death. I thought the resolution of the mystery felt a bit like a kick in teeth after all the theories I made with my friends. However, I believe that because we invested so much into the theory I think that nothing really could have been good enough . Upon thinking about it, I personally think that Ruby’s mother being ordinary makes her extraordinary. I think of it this way, we have had Bad Wolf, the DoctorDonna, The Impossible Girl, silence will fall, the hybrid. Nearly every companion or mystery ended up being a big event (which is good as it is payoff) but it gets to a point where each thing has to be bigger than the previous. So in a world where we have all those things, maybe a mother doing a heartbreaking thing based on pure love is enough. Plus Russell said there is more to reveal about Ruby’s family so there is still time to add something more to it. Heck, even Martha, who The Master said he was so disappointed in The Doctor for choosing when he has had companions who absorbed the power of the time vortex and compared to that Martha is ordinary, became the woman who walked the earth in the year that never was. And to respond to your point about Sutekh not knowing who Ruby’s mother was. It was explained because the humans invested so much into her mystery that it made her existence more powerful than Time Lords and Gods. Basically we made her harder to find and increased the power of her mystery (A very fantasy way). And that screen was a trap The Doctor and Ruby made to get Sutekh to lower his guard and get them where they needed to be. That is what I got from the episode myself.

As someone who has never watched Pyramids of Mars or really knew much about Sutekh before this finale, I was able to follow along with what the episodes provided…but it didn’t really carry much weight. The only reason why the set up worked as well as it did for me was because I enjoyed the fact that people were right about Sutekh returning (I had seen fan theories beforehand). Had I actually gone into LoRS blind, I probably would’ve been left a bit confused. I feel like The Giggle and World Enough and Time did a better job of reintroducing old foes (Toymaker and Mondasian Cybermen) because they did a better job of establishing who they were and what made them unique. When it came to Sutekh, I was wondering why he was so focused on who Ruby’s mom was, especially with how OP it was. It made the reveal that Ruby’s mom was ordinary work less for me because then why was Sutekh so focused on her? I couldn’t tell if he was written in character or if it was just really contrived writing

You have McDonald's need after that I was thinking what food eat after this depressing episode

This right review final eye opener

cant see it in Australia without Disney subscription and im not paying that